![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small}
Remember the Bailout
Let's recap how bad this is...
Wall Street is tumbling because of bad investments. This will affect us - Main Street. How hard or how bad? No one really knows. I've heard everything from "Depression 2" to "it's going to be a belt tighter". We're all guessing when it comes to the ramifications of doing nothing, doing too little, doing too little too late, doing everything too late, or just pushing forward without any real due diligence.
In a smashing blow to Bush and his cronies in the Treasury, Wall Street and other places, the House of Representative - over whelmed with calls, letters, and e-mails from 'We the people', listened.
I heard the debate Monday and the overwhelming opinion was:
1) No one wanted to have to vote on this bill
2) This bill was pathetic - at best - but it was all they had
3) Doing SOMETHING was better than doing NOTHING
Pelosi, in her typical manner, took a bipartisan bill and claimed victory for having gotten it done. She also made comments referring to the fact that this whole fiasco was the Bush administration's fault.
Question Pelosi. Who is it that passed Bush's finances? Did he just push them through, or did both House and Senate sign off on them?
Lay the blame where it rightly belongs - Washington!
I was so glad that a fat bill loaded with benefits for fat cats and politically connected cats was, in the House, beaten.
I am not against the bailout!. I'm against Main Street being forced to eat this poop sandwich and told how good it is for us! How many times will we just sit there and take it?
Why not make Wall Street fund the bailout? Why not make LOANS on the bad assets instead of buying them outright? Why not give the $8K per taxpayer (Approx) to John and Jane Q Public and let THEM decided how to fix the economy with that money - either let them send their money to the bad banks, or let them pay off bills and buy needed items? Either way it would be their choice, not the Fed, not the Treasury, not Congress. Why won’t they do it?
Why?
Because the fat cats would be in trouble.
The Senate has not only passed a bill with LOTS of pork loaded in it:
Wooden arrows: This tax break, backed by Oregon's two senators, would benefit an Oregon manufacturer of wooden arrows for children by $2 million over 10 years.
Racetracks: Earmark would allow auto racetrack owners to depreciate their facilities over seven years, saving the industry $100 million over two years.
Rum: Offers rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands a rebate on excise taxes worth $192 million over two years.
Wool: Reduces tariffs for U.S. makers of wool fabric that use imported yarn, worth $148 million over five years. The measure was pushed by Reps. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., and Melissa Bean, D-Ill.
Exxon Valdez: Plaintiffs in the suit over the 1989 oil spill could spread their tax payments on punitive damages over three years, cutting their tax bill by $49 million. The measure was backed by Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska.
American Samoa: Allows certain corporations to reduce their tax liability on income earned in American Samoa, at a cost of $33 million over two years.
Hollywood: Extends a tax break for film and TV companies that keep their production in the United States, worth $478 million over 10 years. The provision was originally pushed by Rep. Diane Watson, D-Los Angeles.
(As published in the San Francisco Chronicle)
Bottom line, this bill is a black hole to the American Tax payer.
Obama and McCain BOTH voted for it.
Bob Barr did NOT.
Neither party has the American people's interests at heart. All they want is to be elected so they can be the lobbyists' next puppet.
Why did the Senate pass it so fast and eagerly? Their seats are not up for another - what? - Three (3) years?
Bob Barr (Libertarian) is for LESS government. He is against the entire bailout program in its current form. He stands for the American people.
The Texas Cry of freedom should be changed and all Americans - this election and the Senate elections - should shout - REMEMBER THE BAILOUT!
Remember that Bob Barr did NOT vote for it!
Make your vote count for something other than a Washington Fat Cat's wallet.
Wall Street is tumbling because of bad investments. This will affect us - Main Street. How hard or how bad? No one really knows. I've heard everything from "Depression 2" to "it's going to be a belt tighter". We're all guessing when it comes to the ramifications of doing nothing, doing too little, doing too little too late, doing everything too late, or just pushing forward without any real due diligence.
In a smashing blow to Bush and his cronies in the Treasury, Wall Street and other places, the House of Representative - over whelmed with calls, letters, and e-mails from 'We the people', listened.
I heard the debate Monday and the overwhelming opinion was:
1) No one wanted to have to vote on this bill
2) This bill was pathetic - at best - but it was all they had
3) Doing SOMETHING was better than doing NOTHING
Pelosi, in her typical manner, took a bipartisan bill and claimed victory for having gotten it done. She also made comments referring to the fact that this whole fiasco was the Bush administration's fault.
Question Pelosi. Who is it that passed Bush's finances? Did he just push them through, or did both House and Senate sign off on them?
Lay the blame where it rightly belongs - Washington!
I was so glad that a fat bill loaded with benefits for fat cats and politically connected cats was, in the House, beaten.
I am not against the bailout!. I'm against Main Street being forced to eat this poop sandwich and told how good it is for us! How many times will we just sit there and take it?
Why not make Wall Street fund the bailout? Why not make LOANS on the bad assets instead of buying them outright? Why not give the $8K per taxpayer (Approx) to John and Jane Q Public and let THEM decided how to fix the economy with that money - either let them send their money to the bad banks, or let them pay off bills and buy needed items? Either way it would be their choice, not the Fed, not the Treasury, not Congress. Why won’t they do it?
Why?
Because the fat cats would be in trouble.
The Senate has not only passed a bill with LOTS of pork loaded in it:
Wooden arrows: This tax break, backed by Oregon's two senators, would benefit an Oregon manufacturer of wooden arrows for children by $2 million over 10 years.
Racetracks: Earmark would allow auto racetrack owners to depreciate their facilities over seven years, saving the industry $100 million over two years.
Rum: Offers rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands a rebate on excise taxes worth $192 million over two years.
Wool: Reduces tariffs for U.S. makers of wool fabric that use imported yarn, worth $148 million over five years. The measure was pushed by Reps. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., and Melissa Bean, D-Ill.
Exxon Valdez: Plaintiffs in the suit over the 1989 oil spill could spread their tax payments on punitive damages over three years, cutting their tax bill by $49 million. The measure was backed by Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska.
American Samoa: Allows certain corporations to reduce their tax liability on income earned in American Samoa, at a cost of $33 million over two years.
Hollywood: Extends a tax break for film and TV companies that keep their production in the United States, worth $478 million over 10 years. The provision was originally pushed by Rep. Diane Watson, D-Los Angeles.
(As published in the San Francisco Chronicle)
Bottom line, this bill is a black hole to the American Tax payer.
Obama and McCain BOTH voted for it.
Bob Barr did NOT.
Neither party has the American people's interests at heart. All they want is to be elected so they can be the lobbyists' next puppet.
Why did the Senate pass it so fast and eagerly? Their seats are not up for another - what? - Three (3) years?
Bob Barr (Libertarian) is for LESS government. He is against the entire bailout program in its current form. He stands for the American people.
The Texas Cry of freedom should be changed and all Americans - this election and the Senate elections - should shout - REMEMBER THE BAILOUT!
Remember that Bob Barr did NOT vote for it!
Make your vote count for something other than a Washington Fat Cat's wallet.
YOU PEOPLE BETTER GIMME MY RUM REBATES!
that is all.
Do you *object* to the repeal on taxes on the wooden arrow shafts? Because I've looked into it, and I not only support it, I can't think why any thinking person would object. Do you object to it? If so, why?
I'm just asking.
You could have just said so, instead of concealing your ignorance with mockery.
You, today: "I don't know of any children who play with wooden arrows! So make something else!"
Herbert Hoover, 1930: "Many people have left their jobs for the more profitable one of selling apples."
If you don't see the connection, feel free to ask. I'll explain it to you.
The point is this - if you make a prioduct only a few will buy, then why make it?
Nice quote - So you're for making wooden arrows no one wants, and no one buys. So let's give THAT person a tax break.
That, to me, goes right along with paying farmers NOT to grow certain crops.
Instead of paying them NOT to, just don't buy from them.
How many industries have gone out of business because they 1) Didn't get a tax break when sales dried up to near nothing and 2) no one was buying anymore.
If we are to believe that adding pork like that to a bailout is a good mve then we're already doomed.
Oh wait - the vote passed didn't it?
The tax that was meant for adult's arrows (which can go up to $10)? That has remained untouched. The part of the same bill that inadvertently upped the price of children's arrow shafts (which used to cost 39cents, and which used to be available cheaply to RenFaires and Boy Scout Troops nation wide) by 45cents, more than 50%?
You can support it if you want to.
But there's no one in Congress who will support you. There are damned few people who learn the actual facts involved who will not laugh at you either.
Do something beyond parroting the talking points, if you please. If you want to point and laugh at the damned bill, find an actual reason to do so.
What does a Tax Repeal on Rum, Wooden Arrows or anything else have to do with the Bialout?
Simply this - it bought votes!
That's all it did. So the Bailout, in it's entirely poor form, passed.
The option of Wall Street financing the bailout (House Representative John Carter was trying to get this pushed in) was not even brought up.
Bush had an agenda, and Bush got his way with the help of fellow Demopublican Nancy Pelosi.
So now we will pay trillions to bailout Wall Street, hopefully keep our jobs, and hopefully won't lose our measely savings while the fat cats rest quietly with their off-shore accounts and golden parachutes - yes, they still have those as long as they were under contractual agreement prior to the signing of the Bailout.
$6 million to a company (I know they state companies, but it is for 1 major company in Oregon - I don't know if there are minor ones involved.) to make children's wooden arrows.
I don't know where you live, but I haven't seen a child playing with bows and arrows in years in the South.
So make something else!
As to why any reasonable person wouldn't object?
Because the $6M can go to something useful, like medical research, paying part of the national debt, etc. - I kow $6 million isn't much when it comes to these things, but it's $6M more than they're doing now.
The bottom line is that the Demopublicans WANT us to think that repealing a tax on a child's toy is a good thing - but is it? And WHY is it on the Bailout? Why did they stick it on this particular "life/death" bill? And why not make plastic ones instead of wooden ones?
So the Senators/Reps from oregon would vote Yes.
So that's yet another $6M the tax payers get to foot (Where do you think this "repeal" is coming from? If they cancel one tax, they'll boost another).
Again, $6M isn't much, but I'm tired of paying the 1M - several hundred Billion the government keeps putting on my back.
If you like it - why don't YOU pay it?
And, no, before you ask--it's not actually my job, nor is my inclination, to educate you.
The facts are these -
The pork was put on there for Senators to vote yes.
Is this whole thing REALLY about wooden arrows? No! That's the prk they lay on top to make people look the other way.
And Senators jumped at it.
Then the House jumped on it.
So now American's have to pay for it - all of it! That $6M you are so stuck on is on the tail end of what some have stated will be several TRILLION. So $6M doesn't look that big.
The problem is that people are focusing on the pimples and not the lacerations.
You need to get educated on the fact that the bailout didn't do what it was intended to do. The DOW has dropped another 500 points to more than 1000 since last Friday. And it doesn't look like it's getting better.
We are truly heading for a depression worse than the 1929 one, and unless Wall Street pulls it's collective head out of the sand that's all there is.
If you don't know anything about THAT, why would I give you the benefit of the doubt about anything you say about anything else?
There are a lot of reasons to argue that what the Congress just did was stupid.
Plz to be choozing teh ones which are worth fighting against, plz.
The ones I listed were the ones taht were so obvious it was crazy.
If I were to tell you that before you could fill up your car with gas you had to pay a small fee to a doctor so he could buy tongue depressors in a small county that can't afford any - what would you say?
I know what I would say - Why should I pay the doc, when I want gas?
You're arguing points of "You don't know anything about this bill" The BILL is the BAILOUT. The Wooden Arrows, Rum, Autoracing, Film & TV, etc were all added to buy a Yes vote from Congress.
It had NOTHING to do with helping people out (other than Wall Street).
Yes, I know. It was obvious where you got it from. I published a more complete list in my journal, and explained to some out-of-towners (well, OK, Canadians) how and why that happened.
:)
I pay my taxes, even for things that I don't use, and for people I will never see.
But how many of those bills am I - the American taxpayer - expected to pay?
I wasn't trying to say see - here are stupid things we shouldn't have. I was saying Adding all these things to a bad bill to get it to pass is just WRONG!
Adding to bills is what Congress does - always has, always will. Doesn't make it right.
Again, I wasn't saying these things were stupid/silly/incompentent - but that they were added is.
Would I pay, at the gas pump, extra for tongue depressors? No. Why? I already pay a tax in every gallon - why should I pay an add-on tax?
I guess my analegy wasn't clear.
If they want tongue depressors, take it out of the tax. If they need to add more tax - let's vote on it.
Was that ever even in question?
What you're talking about here has nothing to do with the most recent bill. This is systemic. The repeal on the (accidental) taxes of the wooden arrow shaft meant for children's arrows? That was a good idea, that there weren't very many ways of repealing via the Senate *except* through adding it on as an amendment to another bill.
The system is what needs to be pulled down. And even then, I don't have a better one ready to put up in its place.
"The system is what needs to be pulled down. And even then, I don't have a better one ready to put up in its place."
OH MY GOODNESS!
We agree!!!!
:)
I wouldn't even have continued to disagree (publicly) had not both
Not sure about salembroomrider.
I may know them...
But it was a good debate regardless. :)